Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 09:43, 11 June 2007

Archive: August 2006 - April 2007, May 2007

Thwarting site's plot

This might do a better job of lessening the disruption, if any, caused by this site. -- tariqabjotu 03:55, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Ingenious! Do you think it's better to put a comment in the dummy section or just leave it blank? nadav (talk) 04:00, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

That might not be a bad idea. Perhaps something along the lines of the wording in the rally template for those who actually attempt to post there. -- tariqabjotu 04:14, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

YechielMan's RFA

Thank you for participating in either of my unsuccessful requests for adminship. Although the experience was frustrating, it showed me some mistakes I was making, and I hope to learn from those mistakes.

Please take a few minutes to read User:YechielMan/Other stuff/RFA review and advise me how to proceed. Best regards. YechielMan 21:53, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

East Jerusalem synagogues

Are you absolutely sure about this? It is possible, for example, that they were used for other purposes, then restored to synagogues? Jayjg 02:10, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Ah, well I know for a fact that the Ohr haChaim synagogue was still functioning up until the war. It was closed and then reopened in '67. This info is on the Israeli government websites and . The Ari synagogue I think was used only until the riots in '36. I have no info about the third Jewish quarter synagogue on the list. nadav (talk) 02:19, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Hmm. Well, do what you think best. Jayjg 02:46, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

COI Templates.

Hi, I'm sending you a message because of your involvement with the Misplaced Pages:Templates_for_deletion/Log/2007_May_18#Template:COI_and_Template:COI2 discussion. The result of the TfD was no-consensus, but there was a significant expressed consensus for editing the templates to bring them into line with good practice. Unfortunately this has not happened, and the templates have been left pretty much in the state they were before the TfD. Would you like to assist in bringing these templates in line with good practice? --Barberio 16:42, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Soft redirects

Hello. You didn't have to take Brian Radel and Jason Arrant to RfD; I would have self-reverted the prod deletion if you explained why soft redirects are bad. I didn't get any sense of that from reading Misplaced Pages:Soft redirect, though I don't have much experience with them. Best, nadav (talk) 00:44, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

I thought it was best to get some other opinions on RfD, since if one person disagreed with the {{prod}}, other people might too. And you are right that when not to use a soft redirect can be obscure; the rule of thumb is that a soft redirect is nothing more than a redirect, only that it couldn't be done as a redirect because of technical limitations. In the case of names of people redirecting to another wiki, there is a precedent for deleting them (there were dozens of these pointing to the sep11 wiki, and all were deleted), but it doesn't seem to be documented anywhere. --cesarb 00:50, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Water memory

Would you mind taking a look at my recent edits to water memory and adding any kudos/complaints to the talk page? I'd like to try to reach some consensus on the material. Maury 15:03, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Expanding Tzuf Dvash Synagogue

"Hello. I am thinking of expanding the article to include more general details on the development of the North African Jewish community of the old city. I also want to add info on the Tovi Yishbau yeshiva (now Torat Kohanim). Do you think this should this be done in the current article (with an appropriate name change) or in a new one?" nadav (talk) 01:41, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

• Although I see the advantage of having all the information on one page, I am inclined to leave this page exclusively for information about the synagogue and create a new one about Torat Kohanim Yeshiva, as in Ateret Cohanim which has a redlink to Torat Chaim Yeshiva which had used the same building previously. We would then retain the Tzuf Dvash Synagogue listed under Category:Synagogues in Jerusalem. I am not quite sure in which article you could add information about the development of the North African Jewish community – maybe it would require its own page? Chesdovi 09:33, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

The problem is that I have just enough content on the community to provide background but not enough for an independent article. It mostly involves the Tovi Yishbau yeshiva so I suppose I'll just create the page like you said and then put it there. Best, nadav (talk) 09:47, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

היי

ראית את מה שהלך כאן? האשמתי, לדעתי באופן מבוסס-ואני עובד על נוסח חדש יותר, את אחד המשתמשים באנטישמיות-המקרה הזה הוא פשוט די ברור ויש הוכחות. משתמש אחר, מהסוג שיודע כנראה להצליל את כוונותיו, תקף אותי באופן פראי למרות שמשתמשים נוספים אמרו שהם מסוגלים להבין את העובדה שאני מאשים את המשתמש הראשון באנטישמיות. בכל אופן, שים לב שרק בנוגע ליהודים יש כל כך הרבה מלחמות באם הם יוגדרו כיהודים או לא, תחת אלף ואחד תירוצים שונים-כלומר, יש כאן מצב בלתי נסבל שצריך להיות מטופל באופן שיטתי-ובטח ובטח, שלגבי הכלל של "תניח כוונה טובה", הוא צריך לעבור שדרוג למציאות, לפחות בכל מה שנוגע בגזענות או באנטישמיות.--Gilisa 21:19, 7 June 2007 (UTC) כל טוב

הויכוח הוא לגבי משתמש אנטישמי בשם telleramn שלגביו להניח כוונה טובה זה כבר עיוורון-אז גם לזה יש גבול אחרת המפעל הזה לא יוכל להמשיך ולהתקיים-ממילא יש לא מעט דברי ביקורת על ויקיפדיה.

היי נדב. המשתמש טלרמן טען, בדיון שיזם משתמש אחר (יש לי חשד שטלרמן והוא הם למעשה אותו משתמש ואז מדובר בבובת יד), שנסב על שאלת יהדותו של גיאורג קנטור כי "כל מי שטען עד היום שקנטור היה יהודי היה או אנטישמי או ציוני נלהב, שניהם אסורים לציטוט" . זאת במענה למספר מקורות אקדמיים שציינו כי ייתכן שקנטור היה יהודי. ובכן, מבחינה עובדתית, אף מקור אנטישמי לא ייחס לקנטור מוצא יהודי. ויתרה מזאת, אף מקור שזיהה את עצמו כציוני טען שקנטור היה יהודי, אמנם היו ביוגרפים יהודים שייחסו לקנטור מוצא יהודי. אכן קיים מקור ציוני אחד, מתוך כמה מקורות לא ציוניים בהגדרה, שייחס לקנטור מוצא יהודי-וזאת האינציקלופדיה היהודית, אבל זה היה לפני שהיא הפכה לציונית.

כלומר, טלרמן ערך פה איזה שהיא הקבלה בין ציונים לאנטישמים, שלל את זכותם של ציונים ולצטט והפך אותם ללא אמינים מיסודם. עוד, היות ורוב הכותבים על יהדותו של קנטור הם יהודים-יש להניח שהמושג "ציוני", בשימוש שנעשה ע"י טלרמן, מתכוון בעצם ל"יהודי".

טלרמן זוכה להגנה נלהבת של Trovatore שמגן על טלרמן (בהיסטריה ממש) מבלי שטלרמן עצמו מתערב בדיון, מעבר לכך-התגובות שלהם, בויכוחי עבר איתם (לפני מספר חודשים) תמיד היו קרובות מאוד בזמן וטלרמן הוא תוקף נלהב של קטגוריות יהודיות, מדענים יהודים וכ"ו- טרבוטרי הוא פרופ' למתמטיקה ולא יעשה דבר שכזה בזהותו הרשמית.בנוסף, שטענתי בטעות כי טלרמן קרא לטענותי "מגוכחות", בדיון בו נכח טרבוטרי, טרבוטרי, שאליו הופנתה הטענה, לא טרח לתקן אותי-מאוחר יותר התברר לי שלמעשה התבלבלתי וטרובטורי הוא זה שכינה את טענותי מגוכחות. מעיון בהיסטוריה של משתמשים קודמים שהועפו בשל הפעלה של בובות, נראה כי לא פעם בונים למשתמש הדמה היסטוריה של ממש ואישיות של ממש-כמו גם כתיבה במגוון ערכים שהמשתמש הראשי לא פעיל בהם.

אולם, למעט תמיכה בעניין קנטור, מסקירה ראשונית ושטחית למדי, לא מצאתי תמיכה של טרבוטרי בעוד דיונים שבהם נכח טלרמן-בכל אופן, הייתי רוצה לבדוק את האפשרות (גם אם היא לא נשמעת סבירה מאוד או בכלל, אני מודע לכך, זה עניין של תחושה), חרף העובדה שטרבוטרי הוא משתמש מכובד ופרופ' למתמטיקה, עדיין, היו דברים מעולם. --Gilisa 09:43, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Nadav

Hello Nadav,

Thanks for your message. It seems you are a reasonable Wikipedian.

I am actually sick of this. Most articles related to Palestinians or Palestine is unfairly treated on the English Misplaced Pages. While most other languages contain more balanced information, the English version is not getting a fair share.

There are many editors here who are just not interested in information that justifies the Palestinians and their history. For example, many do not like the fact that they are descendants of populations that have existed in the Levant including Israelites themselves! Just the fact that they are Arabic-speaking as most other populations in the Middle east, does not mean that their ancestry is purely from Mecca as some right wind editors love to see...!

I have tried for many months to enhance that section and include sources I see academic and so on. But many users who are, as I see them, are only biased and like to stick to a version which starts at the Ummayid period. As if the peasants of Palestine, the very most original and indigenous population, came during the Ummayid period!

I am not very interested in wasting too much time here on English Misplaced Pages, but it is certainly and issue that articles related to Palestine suffers.

You are welcome to enhance on that section, and I would kindly request that you not remove information we spent times, looking up from google scholar and so on. There is aloot of information in Arabic sources about the family structure of the Palestinians, things that have been preserved for centuries.. Unfortunately, I can not include such sources because this is the English Misplaced Pages.

In any case, I am not having Misplaced Pages as my full-time job like many of those editors. I feel pissed off when massive removal of information happens. Instead these editors should spend time on restructuring the material, balancing it, add other material that gives another perspective. But not killing and removing a material that supports one point of view. It is disturbing and against the spirit of Misplaced Pages...

Almaqdisi 01:42, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I understand what you are saying and I see that you have the best interests of Misplaced Pages at heart. I think we have made some good progress on the talk page of the article in terms of deciding what to add. See the discussion with Tiamut especially, who has done a lot of work towards expanding the article and making it more readable. And I am sure more information will gradually be added. Feel free to suggest new directions for expansion on the talk page; the info about family sounds really useful. Best, nadav (talk) 01:56, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Your replacable image tag

http://en.wikipedia.org/Image:PN_Chalmers_300.JPG I have removed your replacable fair use tag for the following reason: A fair use rationale was posted. -Rogerfgay

Replied on your talk page. nadav (talk) 10:36, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Joshua Prawer

Hi Nadav, I've already got Prawer on my watchlist and I've been reading all the additions and improvements. I don't know if I can improve it any more, but I will see what I can do. Adam Bishop 16:16, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I just wanted to make the section on his work as comprehensive as possible. I think I've done all I can, considering that a month ago I hardly knew the Kingdom of Jerusalem existed. nadav (talk) 00:04, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Kopp on Nazareth

Hello Nadav1: I understand your questioning of Kopp as a source regarding the help Nazareth (still a Jewish village at the time) gave to the Persian Chosroes II in 614 CE. Clemens Kopp was a Catholic priest who wrote on archaeological and historical matters relating to Christianity. He is a principle source on Nazareth archaeology second only to Father Bagatti. Kopp is not by any means without errors, but in this case there is no reason I can see to doubt what he writes. Kopp is citing from Eutychius (876-940 CE) http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05639a.htm whom I translate here: "As began his march towards Jerusalem, the Jews joined him-- those who still lived in Tiberias, in the Galilean highlands, in Nazareth and in the surrounding regions. They set out for Jerusalem and aided the Persians to destroy churches and to slaughter Christians." According to Kopp, this passage (originally in Latin) is from Eutychii Annales in Migne's Patrologia Graeca vol. 111 p. 1083. Renejs

Zionisms etc...

Hi Nadav, Sorry if my comments offended you. I did not realise that you considered yourself Zionist. (Because your edits have been most constructive). As you said zionism does mean different things to different people. All the best ابو علي (Abu Ali) 07:24, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

I try to keep my political beliefs as separate as possible from my Misplaced Pages editing. However, I will say that I do support the concept of a state for the Jewish people. What I meant was that it's not useful to call people "Zionist" nowadays, since it doesn't have one clear agreed-upon meaning, and it can cause a lot of misunderstandings. Regards, nadav (talk) 08:08, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

FYI

Zeq 09:48, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

That page hasn't been on my watchlist. I'll see what's going on there when I get back tomorrow. Best, nadav (talk) 10:09, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Mirandas last edit to her talk page.

'(diff) (hist) . . User talk:Miranda‎; 10:07 . . (+142) . . Miranda (Talk | contribs) (respond...ooops on last comment, b/c 1.) lack of coffee 2.) Nadav = !troll)' copied from my watch list. troll are you?Ω§|Blacksmith2 09:17, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I noticed it, and I am hurt. But there's no use making a big deal out of it...This happens on Misplaced Pages. nadav (talk) 09:20, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

non-free image?? what do you mean?? as far as i can tell i took the picture, made the sims, lot etc, is a link allowed?Ω§|Blacksmith2 09:43, 11 June 2007 (UTC)